While the campaigns keep us all focused on the economy as the major issue of the election, we lose sight of the other half of the importance coin, and that’s foreign policy as it relates to national security.

     Mr. Romney has been a governor, Olympics chief and successful business entrepreneur, but he has no track record in the foreign policy arena for us to judge.

     Not so with Mr. Obama.  In three years and six months, Obama has a very visible track record in foreign policy, so there is plenty to judge.  Here are some of his accomplishments.

     1)  He claims he ended the war in Iraq. In truth, the time table for ending the war was not Obama’s idea, it followed almost exactly as G.W. Bush had prescribed, but with one difference. Mr. Obama chose to completely withdraw and leave no American forces in place to act as advisors, trainers and peace keepers. Bush’s plan was to have 5,000 to 10,000 non-combat troops in Iraq to help with security and support. That would have also given us a strategic presence in the volatile middle east.

     In six months since the end of 2011, when the last troops left Iraq, there have been more than a dozen suicide bombings killing at least 472 people and injuring thousands, and no end in sight.

     TIMELINE-Deadliest attacks in Iraq in 2012 – AlertNet 

     2)  Since Obama has taken office in 2009, virtually nothing has been done to intervene in the on-going slaughter and persecution of Christians around Iraq, to the point that there are only eight Christian churches remaining, and their fate is dismal. Where is our president in the protection of religious freedom in Iraq?

     3)  Obama supported the so-called Arab Spring in Egypt and other middle-east countries. He also supported the overthrow of Hosni Mubarak, a U.S. ally, who single-handedly maintained the peace treaty with Israel. The overthrow ushered in the Muslim Brotherhood, a notorious Islamist organization whose purpose to exist is to conquer the world as a caliphate. (that fact is documented in their own manifesto) Whether by mistake or by design, Obama helped our enemies take over the largest Arab state in the middle east which now threatens the peace with Israel, and the U.S.

     4)  The overthrow of Mubarak, like Saddam Hussein, has resulted in a sharp uprising in violence against the Egyptian Coptics (Christians) for whom no one in America, including the president, is standing up for. In 2011, more than one hundred Coptics have been murdered in Egypt, more than the prior ten years combined.

     5)  Obama authorized warring maneuvers that ousted, and had killed, Moammar Ghadaffi. Folks were happy to see another dictator ousted, even though that same dictator has removed all his weapons of mass destruction when Bush was in office. I don’t remember Obama getting lawful authorization from congress to participate in a military conflict. Now, the Muslim Brotherhood is poised to assume power in Libya,Tunisia,Yemen and other middle-east nations. 

     6)  While Obama was  helping “freedom fighters” oust Ghadaffi and Mubarak, where was he when  “freedom fighters” were calling for a change in Iran? Two times, in 2009 and in 2011, the oppressed people of Iran demonstrated in the streets pleading for support in search of relief from Islamist-driven persecution and tyranny, but all Obama could say was … nothing. Where were the drones? The war planes? The overthrow?

     Then again, there was no Muslim Brotherhood poised to take over in Iran.

     7)   Missile defense has been reduced and/or scuttled to the chagrin of our allies in Eastern Europe. Then again, who cares about our allies? The Russians must be thrilled. Putin may even be more thrilled when Obama has more “flexibility” after the election is over.

     8)  Obama openly called for Israel to return to its pre-1967 borders…which every authority on the subject tells us would be tantamount to national suicide. Does not Obama remember the uprooting of Israel from Gaza, ceding land back to the Palestinians for peace…and all that followed was the on-going rockets and murders by Hamas? Does not Obama realize this in part of the goal of the Muslim Brotherhood?

     9)  Speaking of which, where are Obama’s speeches denouncing the on-going bombings and murders of innocent Israeli citizens across the Gaza border? He denounces Israel for building more residential quarters for their citizens, he denounces Israel for “occupying” Palestinian land, but never denounces Palestinians for systematically murdering Israelis with rockets from Hamas and Hezbollah.

     10)  Why doesn’t the media question assassinations via drones?  Would Bush have been given such a pass? What’s to stop Mr. Obama from drone killings in Australia, the UK, or Mexico? Is this an act of war? Are collateral killings acceptable so long as we know we’ve killed a suspected terrorist?  Can we arbitrarily kill people in other countries we are not fighting in, even if they are American citizens? If we can kill these people, why can’t we capture them instead for intelligence information? Or…hmmm…is that the problem?

  11)   Speaking of the Muslim Brotherhood, why isn’t Mr. Obama held to answer for employing MB-connected Islamists in his White House, Department of Homeland Security and the State Department?

  12)  Why did our president telegraph our strategy to the Taliban in Afghanistan? Contrary to every tactical playbook on fighting wars, he openly announced our time table for withdrawal. This permits the enemy to wait until our troops are gone in 2013, and then resume the extremist treachery of women while the Taliban resumes their aid to terrorists. When does a sports team ever tell opponents their playbook, and expect to win?

  13)  Why did we give a mass murderer, Osama Bin Laden, a respectful burial at sea from an American war ship?

  14)  After getting elected, why did our president feel he had to tell the Egyptian people that Islam had played an important role in the history ofAmerica? Excuse me?

  15)  Radical Islamists have raised their murderous heads in Nigeria killing one thousand Christians in the past two years and destroying a number of churches. Where is the great humanitarian? Where are the war planes and drones?

  16)  In 2008, Barack Obama traveled to Kenya to lend support to the election of Raila Odinga, not only an admitted Marxist but a hard core Islamist who vowed to install Sharia as the law in that country. Since, Kenya has been under a reign of terror led by Odinga’s supporters, and now it appears the Islamists are prevailing and Kenya will become a full Islamist nation.

   17)  In 2009, Obama sided with Hugo Chavez, (who hates the U.S.) in supporting the return of ousted president of Honduras, Manuel Zelaya, who was tried to defy that nation’s constitution by extending his term beyond the law. Zelaya, who was also praised by Castro, had been elected as a conservative, then shifted to the far left once in power. 

  18)  Can anyone imagine how embarrassed the folks in Oslo must be for awarding a Nobel Peace Prize to an American president who had yet to do anything for peace in the world?

  19)  Why did Barack Obama select an Attorney General who came from a private law office that defended – pro bono – seventeen of the “combatants” i.e., Islamic terrorists, housed at Guantanamo? How is that not a conflict? And why did he allow the Attorney General to hire some of the attorneys from that same office into our Justice Department?

20)  And finally, will the president ever explain why he bowed to the King of an Islamic country that beheads homosexuals and then he reaches out to gays for the voting bloc.

     Does anyone get the picture here?

     One can only imagine what lengths will be taken if and when this president is reelected without any more accountability to the people of America,…so he can be as flexible as he wants without a worry in the world.  We better pay attention to the foreign policy side to this campaign.

Obama and Odinga Campaign in Kenya – YouTube

Obama Supports Odinga Islamic Terror in Kenya – YouTube

Atlas Shrugs: Kenya’s killing fields

Obama Overlooks Christian Persecution

The “twilight of Christianity” in Iraq

President Obama, you undermined the 2009 Iranian Uprising | Iranian.com

White House Scraps Bush’s Approach to Missile Shield – NYTimes.com



  1. Ralph E. July 22, 2012 at 5:53 am #

    Snake Hunter Sez,

    Pay Close Attention Pinhead! – Intel Agencies around the world became aware of the
    — Muslim Brotherhood “Project” — shortly after 9/11, when the CIA and our friends in
    the Swiss Gov’t raided a luxurious arab mansion, and found those secret documents detailing the exact plan, the so-called “playbook” of the “Project”, and if you and your alter-ego want to know more, then get your pinnochio-nose out of Peter Lances dumb ‘Triple Cross’ for an hour, or two, stop sucking on that damn bong-pipe, and read — “The Muslim Brotherhood Project” (Post) — for April, 2012. Here’s the link:

    ___ ___

  2. reality July 22, 2012 at 9:00 pm #

    80% of the $17 Billion? a year American taxpayers spend on “Intelligence” is controlled by the Pentagon. All those “intelligence” agents, and those in the CIA, are supposed to warn the president BEFORE America is attacked. Our CIA’s first job was replacing the secular scholar Mossadegh, who Iranians had chosen as their leader of a brand new Parliament after their Nazi-loving monarch was gone, with the son of that Nazi-loving monarch. Because Mossadegh said the Brits had too sweet a deal for Iranian oil, and the Brits therefore wanted to get rid of them, but they had no money, so our new CIA brought “safefulls of money”, is how Teddy Roosevelt’s grandson described it. Our CIA, over the next 24 years, had more agents in Iran than in any other foreign country, and worked with the Shah to keep him in power. They considered Iran their biggest success! They had NO clue Americans would be taken hostage! Forward to 1989?, and the CIA is cheering the Mujahideen and all the Muslims, inclluding those from the Muslim Brotherhood, who helped chase the “godless” Commies out of Afghanistan. When Muslims were filmed at a Long Island shooting range, being trained by a former Muslim Brotherhood member, Ali Mohamed, who was IN OUR ARMY, stationed at our Most secret base, Ft. BRAGG, NOTHING was done. Even after the first WTC bombing, when Ali confessed, and showed some people in our “Intelligence” agencies, where there were secret training camps in Afghanistan, ALI was hired as an FBI informant and sent to California to catch “illegals” from Mexico! All this is in “Triple Cross” by Peter Lance. For you NOW, to start reading “Al-Qaeda determined to attack in the U.S”, is just plain sad, and tragic. We’ve been there, with COMMUNISM, which was also going to destroy us, remember? Instead, so many of the surrogates, and Frankensteins we created, learned how to take down a Superpower, from the Master.

  3. Ralph E. July 23, 2012 at 3:16 am #

    Snake Hunter Sez,


    If her bony skull were to split open… a thousand little triple-crosses would spill out all over the floor, and pages of the Peter Lance book would disintegrate into confetti, to be blown away by the hot repetitive blasts of her own intestinal gases!

    The Shah of Iran (Persia) was a fairly modern leader, for that dreary part of the world.
    He believed that his nation would prosper in the 20th century, if he could just get the pious muslims to understand the beneficial effects of educating the women and girls, and discard the inherent brutality of treating them no better than the family goat.

    The Grand Ayatollah Khomenei, and his students put an end to that great leap forward with and ‘Act of War’ by grabbing our U.S.Embassy on November 4, 1979 and holding our diplomats hostage for 444 days, and a timid Jimmy Carter allowed Iran’s Mullahs to encourage more ‘soldiers of allah” throughout the muslim world to commit more heinous crimes on infidel nations, and create serious crimes and murders, leading to the Blind Sheikh’s 1993 bombing of the WTC parking garage in New York City… and the murder of 3,000 innocents on 9/11/2001.

    Read Andrew C. McCarthy’s “GRAND JIHAD, and how the left SABOTAGE AMERICA”,

    or if anyone here wants a quick peek, see S/H Post by A.C. McCarthy “islamic Jihad, by Any Means Available in our June 12, 2010 (Archives), followed by “A Personal e-Mail to Reb” Aug 22, 2010. — ( I count Andrew, and Marshall Frank, as among my dearest e-Mail friends.) I highly recommend M. Frank’s book ‘MILITANT ISLAM IN AMERICA’ to all of my aware friends).

    Attempting to teach Pamela and her alter-ego, ms reality, the factual lessons of Islam
    or the 1400 yrs of that violent retrograde society, is like trying to teach an organ-grinders monkey to read the barrack-room ballads of Rudyard Kipling. – reb

    ___ ___

  4. reality July 23, 2012 at 4:09 pm #

    The Shah of Iran was in power TWENTY-FOUR years. He had plenty of time to be the “modern” leader to his people. He was a MONARCH on a Peacock Throne. You never saw that jewel-encrusted symbol of the very kind of “king”, we so hail our Founding Fathers for overthrowing? And if the “intelligent agencies” you praise so highly now, and whose information you are NOW so sure is a “slam dunk”, why did they not know the Shah was about to be overthrown? Surely our many CIA personel in the country walked amongst the people, and were constantly on alert, right? Like for 8 years, our CIA in Pakistan secretly arming, training and PAYING cash to anyone who would fight the “godless” Commies in Afghanistan, knew that they were dealing with Muslims who were just like the Muslims you now see as such a threat? “Triple Cross” by Peter Lance, is full of Muslim names, and names places in America where they were, and names FBI, JTTF, etc., and others that we PAY big money to, to keep us safe, who knew very well how dangerous those Muslims were, and yet did NOTHING to stop them. Now you’re making a Big Show of locking the barn door after 3000 Americans have been killed, 1/3 of our economy destroyed, and Ramzi Josef’s directions on how to make a bomb that can be put on a plane to go off, AFTER the bomber has deplaned, and the plane is on its second leg of its route.
    You don’t mention Mossadegh at all. You can google him. We could have had a SECULAR parliamentary democracy in Iran in 1953. But all the those just as scared of Commies, as you are of Muslims now, kept up the fear, propaganda, and “dirty tricks”, and secret manuevering in Ike’s govt., and imposed a dictator on the Iranian people for 24 years.

  5. Ralph E. July 23, 2012 at 6:43 pm #

    We are observing the complex mind of a person devoid of critical evaluation, that will perpetually bore the hell out any person searching for factual details.

    What do we get? Peter Lance, and triple crosses, miles and miles of triple crosses!

    This is what you can expect from the dillusional personality, that gushes and sputters,
    and wonders why she cannot convince others to join her splintered political notions, and cries out hysterical mutterings like….

    “Why Won’t You Be Patriotic LIKE ME, and Help Barack Obama Get Re-elected,…
    So We Don’t Accidentally Get Another Evil George Bush As Our President?”

    Try to Fathom The Hypocrisy of a Government that requires every citizen to prove that they are insured — but NOT PROVE, with a Photo I.D. that they are a legit citizen,

    This Duplicity is what you can expect from Pammy Jarvis & her alter-ego Ms Unreality.
    It’s sll Pure Dreck.. miles and miles of it. – reb

    http://www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com < — Check it out.
    ___ ___

  6. Amy Rosebush July 24, 2012 at 2:47 pm #

    Well there is certainly a lot to read here……one thing that I AM familiar with on your list is the drone strikes. I was severely dismayed to hear of that, to say the least.I have a lot to learn about all of this but I can say that I would like to have Obama beholden to us for the things that he has done.

    Our system of government is not set up that way though. All we are getting from either of them is their political garbage for the sake of the new presidency. We will never get answers unless we demand them and nothing will change unless the people change things in mass. I would have to dedicate a few hours to everything you have listed here to know what you are talking about on a deeper level. (I listen to NPR all the time, but it doesn’t always sink in)

    I don’t have time now. I will come back to this. I have to say something though. Even if it sounds terrible, I have to choose Obama over Romney no matter what because of the way that Republicans are treating so many of the issues. I disagree with them to the point of having experienced a need to spit on occasion. I don’t think any liberally minded, socially conscious, human rights oriented woman could ever vote for him and be considered to be” in her right mind.”

    We do not have accountability in our government by any means. This is what happens when people and power and money are allowed to run a muck. Our entire system needs an overhaul. Like Thoreau said “There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root.” We need a few new Rosa Parks to come to the front of the bus, as Paul Hawken said in his book a Blessed Unrest. The little people, like me…..can propagate information and hold up the few who must strive to change our system of government.

    And what the heck is wrong with people? If I disagreed with you I would come in here and disagree with you by providing your with a reasonable argument. Some guy said “Hey Pinhead….” As soon as you open with that, all is lost, PAL. Take a step back would you? If you were dealing with a “pinhead” he wouldn’t have a blog wherein he delves deeply into politics and social issues. Duh, he would be playing video games and getting his truck ready for a mudding trip. Give me a break. Grow up America. Stand up for something and use ALL your words. (this last bit was directed at the guy who said pinhead…..if that was unclear.)

  7. Ralph E. July 25, 2012 at 12:23 am #

    Snake Hunter Sez,

    Dear Ms Amy – You seem, at first glance, a reasonable person, and neither Marshall Frank nor I hide our political notions, or our personal lives behind a psuedonym, and those that do, as you will see, are boringly repetitive, and cling to an obvious worship
    of all things left-of-center, including quoting Dwight David Eisenhower w/ “Military Industrial Complex” and she bum-raps George Bush, Dick Cheney, and many others with the same broad brush. Example: any word or action by ‘those nasty republicans’ have done or said in past decades usually gets a blistering, mindless verbal attack.

    After months of this political bias, it is I… that refers to this nonsense as goofy, inane and pin-headed. This person, and her more articulate friend Pamela Jarvis, have driven away from Marshall’s fine comment section, many of the decent commentators, and sadly, they continue to avoid these two destructive bone-headed freaks and their foolish chatter to this day. If you listen to NPR “all the time” perhaps you might spend 15 minutes of your value-time with Snake-Hunter weblog. Left & Right-Wingers are welcomed equally, but we delete the rude, the crude and the potty-mouths.

    Long ago, I’ve learned not to trust political labels. There are political personalities, and there are statesmen, and it takes years of independent observations and honest research, to understand the difference.

    “Trust, But Verify” – Ronald Reagan

    So, giving “Anonymous Amy” the benefit of the doubt, I’d like to Trust You, but being a skeptical old rascal, I would appreciate some verification. I’d like to offer a simple test of your sincerity, by asking you to read a single snake-hunter post…. carefully evaluate its content, then report back your conclusions to “Letting Obama Be Obama” by Dr. Paul Kengor. Tap Archives on the template page for — > January 01, 2012



    I’ll leave it there for now Amy, with a quote from a great American:

    “I have a dream, that one day a man will be judged, not by the color of his skin, but by the content of his character” – M.L King

    Cordially, reb
    ___ ___

  8. Amy Rosebush July 25, 2012 at 1:46 pm #

    You give me homework?( ha ha ha. Ug. )You have no idea how much homework I have already. Like you said, it takes a lot of time to remain informed and to understand what is really going on. If only the media were beholden to the truth, I would not have to spend the time that I should be using t o wash my car and do my dishes looking at random blogs.

    I thought you were calling MARSHALL a pin head. I am going to have a look at that just a soon as I get a chance. Unfortunately my free time is gone. I have to go send a letter stating that I do indeed want representation in the pending foreclosure on my house in St Cloud. Then I have to grocery store, do my college homework, clean out my car, load my paint things and get to Taekwondo for class and for work. I am painting a wall mural there, on the wall.(I also take classes there for free) I will not be back until later at which time I am supposed to be working on a “dinner party” painting at home.I will be back as soon as time allows.

    “Time is water in my hands”, Amy Rosebush

    I am always sincere.

  9. Amy Rosebush July 25, 2012 at 1:49 pm #

    There is no edit in here? I suppose I will have to sit at my desk to type. Ignore all typos. You may also know me as the Typo Queen……That is my other name and I am proud of it. I tend to do “walk by replies”…….and so they are not always tidy. REALLY? No edit in here? I miss my wireless keyboard. The keys were raised up. Now I have to type on this flat laptop and I am a fumbly fingers.

  10. Amy Rosebush July 25, 2012 at 4:19 pm #


    Yeesh. I went to the page and started reading. I figured I would have a look now and reply later. THAT’s not happening. There is a LOT of information there and there are a lot of references that I am not familiar with. I will get back to you in a week.

    I think the gist of it (from the first five paragraphs and the last two…..)is that Obama has a right hand woman who wants america to be communist? That’s what you get when you speed read…..I will DELVE later. When I fall silent you will know that I am still reading.

    Is that YOUR blog? Thanks for the invite either way. I will be back.

  11. Ralph E. July 25, 2012 at 5:50 pm #

    AMY – YOU ARE A ‘BRANCH OF ROSES”… and much like a breath of fresh air, after dealing with Pamela and her odd side-kick “reality”.. with their intention to obfuscate, to purposely distort, then alter the subject matter, for these past months. I’m delighted that you at least have the courage to examine a small bit of the fact-based evidence my search-engine has uncovered.

    I’ve been at this keyboard 3 hrs per day, 7 days per week, for several years, and I do enjoy it. I’ve often reflected on how fortunate my family is… to have this birthright, to this unique republic, the greatest nation in human history!

    The serious blog administrator, must first detach from emotional political ideologies
    when it’s possible to do so, and look for independent authors, to maintain credibility.
    I am slow at the keyboard, and do what I can, with what energy I have left at my age.

    My favorite blogging authors are Andrew C. McCarthy (See ‘Grand Jihad’) and Marshall Frank (See ‘Militant Islam In America’) These two gentlemen are thorough in their efforts, and they have fllled in my own research with intimate details & dates, and I want to publicly acknowledge that I am grateful to them.

    Motto: **” The Wisest Mind Has Something Yet To Learn” ***


    As my friend Marshall has said… “Be Aware, Remain Vigilant” – reb


    ___ ___

  12. reality July 26, 2012 at 8:43 pm #

    Dear Ralph: I’ve NEVER said: “Why Won’t You Be Patriotic LIKE ME, and Help Barack Obama Get Re-elected,…So We Don’t Accidentally Get Another Evil George Bush As Our President?” I’ve also NEVER called anyone “a nasty Republican”. And to Amy, Ralph is the one who has called me “Pinhead”. And Please, Amy, remember that 620,000 Americans died in our “Civil War”. If it is true that only ONE in SEVEN southerners owned slaves, then a Minority incited a whole lot of others to secede from the Union-which that Constitution everyone now says we should obey, formed. Lincoln pledged to enforce all laws already on America’s books. See his first inaugral address. Yet the Confederacy formed 2 weeks BEFORE Lincoln’s inaugural, and the SC articles of Sucessiion say they did it to keep their slaves. Now, all kinds of accusations are being made about Obama, Huma Abedin, “Liberals”, etc., implying that we are not loyal to the Constitution. We are. And we are very frightened that Ralph, Marshall, and so many others, are determined to divide America, instead of being “one nation, under God”.

  13. Pamela Jarvis July 27, 2012 at 6:32 am #

    Amy……be careful where you tread on this log. Ralph E. defines himself above, sounding rather benign, as being “a skeptical old rascal”. Indeed…..Ralphy is trying his best to get rid of anyone who writes on this site who disagrees with his ideology – and he uses nasty (if not comical) insults and disingenuous accusations to drive the nay-sayers away where they cannot interrupt his agenda. The loss of these dissenters will enable him and other like-mindeds to continue preaching to the choir who really have no clear-cut researched opinions of their own. And beware….the “Snake Hunter” will speak to you in a condescending language of his own life experiences and delusions. So we loathed ones occasionally feel obliged to annoy, irritate, agitate, expose, and love him. Oh yeh….you gotta’ love ol’ Ralphy.

  14. Ralph E. July 27, 2012 at 3:34 pm #

    There They Go Again w/ “Over & Under” Shot-gunning, With Both Barrels.

    * Low I.Q. Ms Anonymous Un-reality… firing away with off-topic items about the “Civil War”
    and “Southern Slavery” etc… any devise to obfuscate, to throw readers off-track…

    * High I.Q. Pammie Jarvis… with the same tiresome tactic of attacking the messengers rather than honestly addressing the Message of Marshall’s Post.


    a. At last, we have a clear admission: We “feel obliged to annoy, irritate, agitate and expose”
    and “pretend to love” someone. The facts are, sociopathic personalities do not have the intent, or the capacity to feel ‘Goodwill or Love’ for… any other personality.

    b. The Classic Narcissist is overwhelmed with extremes of Vanity, and Love of Self.

    c. Above types often suffer mood-swings, deep depressions & weird behavioral patterns.

    d. Law Enforcement Personnel must often deal with these subjects. Ask M. Frank for specific cases, he has without doubt, hundreds on file, and/or in his computer. — reb
    ___ ___

  15. Ralph E. July 28, 2012 at 5:03 am #

    Snake Hunter says,,, be not deceived… the snake speaks with a forked-tongue!


    Amy – Make your independent value judgement as to who you find trustworthy. Those with completely open and above board profiles, publicly displayed on a weblog, or…

    These two finger-pointing cowards (I refer to as “pinheads”) that purposely attempt to swing away from direct discussions, and interesting comments from a variety of Marshall’s friends,
    and both of them introduce “off-topic” subject matter…and as Pamela candidly admits to feeling “obliged to annoy, irritate, agitate, expose,and (pretend) to love…” and feel warm and comfy hiding their true identities, albeit lacking any legitimate profile, whatsoever.

    Question: Who would you trust in an emergengy, or as your next door neighbor? – reb

    ___ ___

    • Chris July 28, 2012 at 3:00 pm #

      R E…you know I am going to want you as a neighbor over some pacifist groveler who will be begging for her life as the sword comes down on her neck. War is evil. Giving in to terrorism is to live as a slave. Evil too.

      Welcome to the fight. (haha). At least it is just words and some very spirited disagreements.

  16. Pamela Jarvis July 28, 2012 at 9:01 am #

    Oh for God’s sake Snakey Ralphy…….now I will have to explain to Amy that this is a perfect example of what I was telling her about you.

    Reference your “a.” I was being facetious. But you don’t understand that genre. On the second part of “a”, I haven’t noticed anything resembling “Goodwill” or “Love” coming from you…..correct me if I’m wrong. On the other hand, I believe I’ve told you many times how much I adore you. How can one not adore someone so passionate and confident about his beliefs…even if they are somewhat skewered to a philosophy of jingoistic self-interest. As for “b”; I couldn’t possibly be narcissistic and vain what with you constantly keeping me refreshed with a new barrage of insults and derogatory remarks. On “c”. – you are describing what mostly the whole human race is experiencing right now….it is crazy times for most people unfortunately. It’s a wonder we all don’t go stark raving mad.

    You actually seem to be a bit off-topic yourself Ralphy. You should better spend your time referring Amy to all the books and articles you want her to read that support your ideology….so that she could better understand why she should follow your teachings and trust you.

    By the way……(boy..I’m losing energy doing this – but I’m compelled to defend my honor so to speak) – Amy….I’m a good neighbor, even if I don’t have a gun, and I
    love my grandkids and all children and some people and animals, etc. I am of the opinion that hatred and violence never work…..only understanding and kindness will solve the world’s problems….and I do believe with all my heart….the people like Snake – er – Ralph are creating more problems with their tactics. Both parties…..Demo and Repub are (perhaps not quite equally) to blame for the mess our once beautiful country is in…whether we can pull out of it before it’s too late depends on careful and truthful research…and one’s own capacity for searching out and understanding the complicated issues and problems we are all faced with. This requires critical thinking outside of any boxes that charlatans want to put us in.

    I understand Ralph’s anger……and his possible self-loathing. We are all flawed in one respect or another.

  17. Amy Rosebush July 28, 2012 at 2:33 pm #

    Okay guys! I am really not interested in your inner personal issues. Don’t get me wrong. I know how it goes. My point in being here is to learn something new whether agree with it or not. It’s not about who I trust or who I like. It’s about what I learn. I am just as guilty as you are for name calling and straying from the topic because of my passions. I don’t blame any of you one bit….

    What Ralph gave me to read is very lengthy and I have a lot to look at there before I can respond intelligently. By the time I have gotten back to you all I am sure you will have lost interest. Ha ha aha. My schedule is crazy. I may have a look this evening. I will get back. I am sorry to have taken so long.Then I would like to get back to looking at Marshall’s other posts. That’s why I am here. Thanks so much.

    (By the way, my facebook name is Enthusiasm Perseverance because I am an outspoken atheist, Sometimes you don’t want people to hear your daily rantings. I understand the need for ambiguity when it comes to profiles. Everyone has different reasons. I don’t want people finding me unless I wish for them to. To me, it is a privacy issue.)

  18. Amy Rosebush July 28, 2012 at 2:35 pm #

    Forget checking spelling. Feel free to judge me for that if you don’t like my responses to the articles you all have written and requested that I read. I will not take it to heart. I think I am the only persons here who is making a drink for her child, roasting potatoes, pouring coffee and typing at the same time *snarky smile*. Judge me not. (I will try to proof in the future.) Man do I need a raised keyboard.

  19. Amy Rosebush July 28, 2012 at 2:39 pm #

    I give up.See you later.

  20. Pamela Jarvis July 28, 2012 at 6:49 pm #

    Dear Amy: You sound like an intelligent woman who will carefully consider the sources of what (and where) you are reading and learning. Make no mistake, I am not in a contest with RE to win favor. I too am busy teaching art classes, trying to find time to do more of my own artwork, babysitting younger grandkids, supporting the efforts of my older grandchildren (who are great kids)…….my family is my first priority. You sound a lot younger than I, and as busy as you are, at least you are thinking – and are curious….good for you. My real issue here with RE is a basic difference in philosophies….I was hoping to have the freedom to speak some opinions without being maligned and insulted….RE and some others on this blog speak volumes in there own vernacular of offending rhetoric. I’ve considered RE’s thoughts and references……you will make up your own mind if you care to investigate further. I have no personal issue with RE because he is the way he is, and don’t give him a thought except on this blog. I hope all the info you gather is well-taken and carefully perused.

  21. Ralph E. July 28, 2012 at 7:58 pm #

    Snake Hunter Sez,

    Pammie Babie: Let me remind you… ME — SNAKE-HUNTER— You sNaKe! Just let me say
    that it is your taunting blurbs & admitted efforts to “annoy and irritate” that forces “off-topic”
    responses. So, it’s shame on you, pinhead.


    AMY: I respect your honesty in saying you are an ‘outspoken atheist’, but caution you that it forces an awkward Defensive Position. It’s quite impossible to either prove or dis-prove these theories. If people insist, I’ll quickly admit that, although I have diligently searched to find this creator g-o-d, I have yet to find ample, convincing evidence beyond a circumstantial degree,
    nor have I been visited by heavenly angels (other than my incredible, and tolerant wife!)

    The Agnostic simply says: “I DON’T KNOW!”

    Most Of Us are “too busy” so we all find excuses for not doing countless hours of research, and must depend on reliable authors like Marshall Frank and Andrew C. McCarthy to do the tough hours, days, months… stretching into years… to do the tough research for us, with the historical background checks for us, whether it’s the ‘enemy within our borders’ or the existential threats posed by a blood-soaked ancient Death Cult from the Saudi Desert, that defies all logic and reason… with Predominent “satanic verses” from their holy book.

    See S/H May, 2010 Archives for — > *CONTINUUM of WARS”

    Marshall Frank gives us a wide open forum, so let’s hear more from Amy! – reb


    ___ ___

  22. Ralph E. July 28, 2012 at 8:10 pm #


    For “Continuum of Wars” (a short article for Amy)

    It;s found in S/H Archives… tap March, 2010 – reb

    ___ ___

  23. reality July 28, 2012 at 8:52 pm #

    “Giving in to terrorism is to live like a slave”, Chris says. I wonder what James Madison’s slave in the White House would say to that. Or Sally Hemmings. Or any of the many slaves in America AFTER hearing Patrick Henry’s big words: “Give me liberty or give me death”. Patrick Henry’s bride came with slaves, and I believe his family owned slaves too. If you were a slave, easily identifiable with brown skin, nappy hair, etc., would you really choose death, or just follow orders and hope and try to live the best you could? Many, many, Jews, Christians, etc., chose to “go along” with the Nazis, to stay alive, and/or keep their families safe. We are really lucky to be born white in America. It is inevitable that Egypt eventually got fed up with the Military dictatorship that tortured, executed, AND kept them poor. For us, well fed and safe in our nice homes, to issue dire warnings about the Muslims, is forgetting how long it took our Revolution to end slavery.

    • Chris July 29, 2012 at 12:39 pm #

      What in the name of all that is sane are you doing discussing James Madison or Patrick Henry? Honest to Allah, you are so DISCONNECTED from the topic that it makes me seriously question your grasp of anything remotely called REALITY.

      You of “anonymous drive by shooting name”…WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE FUTURE OF OUR COUNTRY IF WE BOW TO THESE NAZI SOCIALISTS AKA ISLAM, AND THEIR SLAVE WAYS. Any idiot knows that the past is the past, and thankfully things have changed for the better. The topic at hand is: Do we want to regress 1400 years to a type of life that the Islamic Nazi’s still think is the way we ALL ought to live?

      THE DIRE WARNING IS ALL ABOUT THE MUSLIMS and what they will do to us if they have the chance. It is NOT about slavery in our country, or slavery throughout the world HISTORICALLY, unless you have the mental capacity to understand that Islam loves the ancient system, and fully intends to enslave anyone and everyone who fails to buy into their system.

      You really need to change your alias to DISCONNECTED. Ralph is correct in the post that follows regarding women and how they will be treated. Is that what you want for your kids…grandkids…etc? Worse, are you so scared to die that you would allow yourself to become a slave?

  24. Ralph E. July 28, 2012 at 9:55 pm #

    Old Snake Hunter… asks a simple question:

    Why Is It Necessary… to remind a pinhead… that the retrograde muslim dicta requires it’s

    women & girls, to clothe themselves in black bags (with peek-holes) accept public whippings,

    and be treated no better than subservient breeding stock… much like the family goat? – reb


    ___ ___

  25. Ralph E. July 29, 2012 at 5:21 am #

    Pamela & Un-reality…

    Be Advised: You ladies should really get together w/ e-Mails, do some serious research on muslim history and brutal cultural traits, and exactly how these buzzards treat their women and girls (with devine authority from shari’a law), and what an american girl will quickly discover if she were to marry one of these charming bozos. Then, dig a little deeper…

    to find out about those “honor killings” within the muslim family structure, and about the ‘acid in face’ techniques plus the sharp knife mutilations to face and body, plus the sad vertically placed young girls… in a 3 foot pit… and stoned to dealth with rocks and/or cement blocks…
    for “sinning” against Allah’s wishes. All without any legal punishment to the adult perpetrators.

    Once you have thoroughly searched, printed and re-examined this vital information, you may began to lose some of your smug attitudes, and really do something positive with your lives…
    by sharing what you’ve learned w/ relatives, neighbors & friends… or create an INFO BLOG.

    reb — > http://www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com — RSVP
    ___ ___

  26. Pamela Jarvis July 29, 2012 at 12:12 pm #

    Ralph…..you never answer the real questions. Do you hate all Muslims? What is your plan for these people who you say literally all follow the teachings of the Koran?
    Have you done any comparable research into the teachings of the Bible? (There are some interesting things going on there too.) You chase a lot of imaginary snakes Mr. Snake-Hunter……but you have nothing to say about a plan to solve any of the many problems of the world. Perhaps if you could do a little more research yourself on the things you avoid talking about, and seem to be oblivious of, we wouldn’t have to worry about people hating us for going around the world bombing their women and children. Remember what we did to a sovereign country, pre-eminently, because of faulty information not thoroughly researched. You, apparently, want more of the same. If not……tell us of your plan – take some time out from running around bashing everything that doesn’t reek of your ideology. Tell us poor inchworms who you accuse of not knowing anything about history or religion or anything else for that matter. The truth……the truth Ralph…….is that maybe you don’t want to reveal what your plan might be…it may look too horrible when you actually put it in print. If you aren’t afraid…..let’s hear it. Please, let’s not waste any more time with distracting insults….we’ve had enough fun doing that…..now, let’s hear your plan for our world.

  27. Ralph E. July 29, 2012 at 6:15 pm #

    Question: High-I.Q. Pamela must re-examine her two opening, idiotic questions:

    Do I hate all muslims? What is my plan? — > These questions are no more relevant than whether or not I like apple pie, and seem to suggest that I, or any serious investigator… is driven by wild imaginings rather than a desire-to-find-truth.. in historical context… to maintain
    a high credibility factor, for the efforts I’ve made over the years.. w/ my Information Website.

    Pamela and her anonymous side-kick are more interested in “annoying and irritating” than in
    developing research skills, and finding reliable articles and books. Dr. Wafa Sultan is a Syrian, born and raised muslim scholar, and author of… A God Who Hates, and its content is
    filled with bone-chilling details of exactly how women and young girls are treated, with divine approval of Grand Ayatollahs and Grand Mufti… and backed by primitive Shari’a Law and the Satanic Verses found in their Holy Qur’an.

    Nonie Darwish is another great source of factual information with “Now They Call Me Infidel”.
    Her father was an Egyptian Army General, and she found the truth “the hard way”.

    Is Pamela and her friend interested in expanding Their Knowledge of Islam’s History & Violent
    Culture, as it relates to.. women and young girls? I doubt it. – reb

    ___ ___

  28. reality July 29, 2012 at 7:24 pm #

    Where were Chris and Ralph in the 1980’s, when those who practiced Sharia law were hailed as heroic “freedom fighters” by President Reagan, and many, many other Republicans, “Christians”, etc.? “Charlie Wilson’s War” by George Crile, shows how that Democrat teamed with all those just as scared then, of “godless Commies”, to arm, train, and fund, any and all Muslims willing to push the Soviet Union out of Afhanistan. Marshall says Obama, by not keeping troops in Iraq, removed our “strategic presence in the volatile Mideast. Our CIA, with at least $2 Billion of our tax $$, and with matching Billions from the Sharia Saudis, removed the Soviet non religious reign from Afghanistan. 10 years they were bogged down in Afghanistan, and probably would be there still, But Carter starts up, and Reagan like “guns” the engine of the “Cold War”, and now we have “Al Qaeda” able to fly planes into our tall buildings-as the FBI was warned in a 1995 memo. See a copy in the appendix of “Triple Cross” by Peter Lance. Oh, and “W” removed the “strategic presence” of Saddam, who had killed a million Iranians, and kept a SECULAR state, which observed his law, not Sharia. And the First Bush, put 500,000 American troops in the Mideast to protect the Sharia Saudis, Kuwaitis, etc. We Still have a huge naval base in Bahrain, don’t we? Again, have you all been asleep 22 years?

    • Chris July 29, 2012 at 8:34 pm #

      Dear Disconnected-

      DId you even read my post? Again, you are discussing the PAST. This blog discusses the FUTURE under Islamic Nazi Socialism.
      You avoid the possibilities and concentrate on the past. You discuss the evils of the past, and apparently, like Obama, enjoy blaming every thing you can on every Republican you can find.

      Stop drinking the Kool Aid. Explain how these Islamo-nazi-socialists are no problem in our FUTURE.

  29. Amy Rosebush July 29, 2012 at 8:22 pm #

    I did my homework…..SORT of, I hope I get at least a C for effort. I only read half of the article. See below.( I did speed read the rest….does that count?)

    The article mentions Frank Marshall Davis, a Communist Party USA member. From what I can tell at a glance there were books written about this connection and those books came down very hard on the side of extreme leftist alarmism. Perhaps those fears are valid. The facts mentioned in this article are not sufficient proof for concern.

    I saw that Obama responded in kind during his first candidacy with a paper called “Unfit for publication”. I haven’t read either the inflammatory paper on Davis as a mentor to Obama nor have I read Obama’s response.

    “This need not make Robert R. Taylor—nor Vernon Jarrett, in his case—a Communist, though it at least puts him squarely on the activist left. If he was not a Communist, then he was a duped liberal/progressive who was manipulated by Communists—Communists like Obama’s mentor, Frank Marshall Davis.”
    This is an assumption. What if it were true?

    What if Taylor or Jarrett were activist leftists? Why would that be so terrible? I have socialist leanings myself. I believe capitalism has a place, and so does socialism. They are not mutually exclusive. I know, we are talking about communism here, but all the premises of communism are not evil. I used to think capitalism was evil, now I know it has a place. This argument alone is not sufficient cause for concern. ( I realize that you were just getting started communicating your concerns to me, I don’t expect you to hand me everything all at the same time to make your argument. )

    I could have read the rest but I did not. I didn’t read the rest for a few reasons. This does not take priority over the other things that I must be doing at the moment. Also, if there is a real reason to fear Barack Obama’s methods I would prefer to talk specifically about what he is doing, what he has done and what he has failed to do to prove those points.

    The idea that someone has ties to someone else who may or may not be a communist is crumbly and intangible. I understand the value of that information if you have already compiled an argument against the president based on more tangible evidence of his “communist” leanings. Then, I would say that this information is just the “icing on the cake”. I am not in that place.

    My Dad is a staunch Republican conservative. He raised me. We disagree on most things. If you had a video of me in high school you would say that I was a devout Christian. Well, I am no longer. You see, I would rather talk about what is really going on. While I appreciate the fact that you (Ralph) knew this very informative article was there for me to peruse, I am not going to finish reading it.

    I am impressed by everyone here. You all have taken the time to remain informed and to talk about what you think is important. That is why I am here. Ralph, I am sure that you have reasons for believing the things that you believe.

    I really want to move on to seeing what Marshall has said here in his 400 plus blog entries and do my own research in my own time. There is a lot to know and I cannot know it all. The best I can do is to remain open and be discerning. I can also follow my gut if that’s my only recourse. I am interested to know the REAL reasons for concern over having Barack Obama as president. For instance, did he really allow for drone strikes that killed civilians? Things like that matter to me. Who he was affiliated with or who he is currently affiliated with is meaningless unless I have a working knowledge of tangible evidence against him as a good presidential candidate.

    I know where you are coming from. I don’t like Romney so it is easy for me to buy into things like this: “Romney has a Koch problem”. There is an affiliation that I could say speaks volumes. I think that is a problem, but I cannot expect you to feel that way unless I can give you an argument containing information supporting my argument that Romney is the worst choice as president. Once I have done that, THEN my argument that Romney is affiliated with the Koch brothers has merit. You see? Jumping ahead to Obama’s supposed communist agenda has the “cart before the horse”.

    Finally, Ralph,

    I saw you make reference once to sharing for the sake of changing minds so that we (those whose minds you have changed) could then share the information with our fellows and our families. You may be older and wiser than me in many ways but I will tell you this; when I am in an argument with someone about something that I care about I am MORE careful about how I talk to them.

    I would be more interested in a conversation in which everyone was treated as a “contributor” or even as an “antagonist”. I can do without the bullying. So, please, let us continue to discuss and leave the animosity behind. (It felt good to be called a branch of roses, but you get my point, I would prefer to learn and grow and leave my definition of myself to me.)

    As for being an atheist, there is nothing to defend. I don’t think there’s a god. I love science. I don’t need a god to explain anything. I have no reason to think that there is one. Arguing about the merits of agnostic verses atheist are just really not very important. I mean, I get your point. If you say you are agnostic you are implying that you can neither prove nor disprove any existence of a god. I just find it more unlikely than not. Was that a double negative? I find common ground with atheists. I see no reason to even consider the existence of a god of any kind. That is why I call myself an atheist.

    For the record, I am more educated in the arts and in science than I am in politics or history. These conversations are a lot of work for me. I will be around continuing to peruse Marshall’s entries. I will pop in from time to time. If the conversation gets ugly though, you can count me out. I have enough REAL stress in my life EVERY DAY to keep me from getting involved with that.

    Thank you all for being so concerned about our country. That sounds sappy, but I mean it. I am happy to be here among you.

    We do not all have time to do hours of research. We are not all scholars. We are not all right, but we all care enough to discuss it.

    • Chris July 29, 2012 at 8:41 pm #


      I am not jumping on you, or your beliefs, but it does seem to me that athiests have to have more faith than any other religious group…because of your certainty of there being no God.
      As a science buff…have your ever studied the Falcon? The intricacy of the Falcon’s eyes is perhaps one of the most compelling things I have ever seen in nature, that begs us to believe in a higher or creative power.
      I am not sure how old you are, and where you stand vis a vis your father’s training and upbringing, but I will remain hopeful, and prayerful that the seeds that were sewn will eventually take root. There is no conflict with an intelligent creator and science. The creator also gave us compassion, something that science cannot quantify.


  30. Amy Rosebush July 29, 2012 at 8:56 pm #

    I’ll get back to you tomorrow on all that tomorrow Chris, my time for blogging is done, I must paint. See you later!

    • Amy Rosebush July 29, 2012 at 8:57 pm #

      Ha ha….I said that twice.

  31. Ralph E. July 30, 2012 at 12:57 am #

    Snake Hunter Sez,

    Thank you Amy. The thinking person must always be welcome if your motivation is clearly in the defense of liberty and equal justice for all. When you say you “half-read” or ‘speed read’ the information, this serves to verify your lack of serious concern for anything Marshall or I might hope will register… as valuable, and useful to your ever-expanding knowledge.

    Secondly, your focus on Frank M. Davis, Vernon Jarrett and Robert R. Taylor are minor percentages of the thousand piece puzzle, of who, and what part does Valerie Jarrett play, and how B.H.Obama and Michelle Obama “trust her completely as a sibling” then Valerie Jarrett must be considered as the single most important “advisor” in All Decisions made by this administration, affecting both local politcs… and International Affairs!

    To proceed, we must take a hard look at all who helped this unknown graduate law student attain his expensive legal education at Harvard University. Well, a bit of research found that Bill Ayers, former Weather Underground leader, and admitted terrorist bomber… contacted the Saudi Arabian Financial Advisor to multi-billionaire Saudi Prince Alweed bin Talal, that is known for his generous contribution of $20,000,000 to Georgetown University in Washingon D.C., and another $20 Mil to Harvard Law School… which begs the question as to why this wealthy guy, a Muslim Prince would have any interest in funding a presumed young christ-loving student… another piece of that mysterious puzzle, don’t you think? Or, are you just “too busy” to continue with the necessary, time consuming personal inquiry?

    I’ll appreciate your honest response. – reb


    ___ ___

  32. Ralph E. July 30, 2012 at 5:33 am #

    Chris – “Disconnected Anonymous Reality” and her pal Pamela seem not the least interested in any fact-based evidences of Islamic history or jihad holy wars, or the grim reality suffered by the innocent victims of this satanic death cult.. They prefer to equate Marx and Lenin’s theoretical agendas with the 1960’s ‘McCarthyism’ and “Commies”… if any one can follow these juvenile mental gymnastics… Whew!


    Ever change your mind, about anything, girls? Ever find out that your political judgements have been less than… Infallible, and that you are capable of making grievous human errors?

    If you ladies have a P.O. Box I’ll be happy to send a few muslim photos (postage paid) of (a) young Aisha that had her nose and ears cut off by adult relatives for being disobedient, or another cute picture of (b) an 11 yr old boy with 3 frag-bombs strapped to his bony chest, with a grinning adult standing behind him. P.S. None of them are Commies, not one! – reb
    ___ ___

    • Chris July 30, 2012 at 3:24 pm #


      I have found I cannot argue with a phantom. If you say and prove that an eleven year old boy has bombs strapped to his body by a willing parent, and you get a response that cars emitted more poslutants in 1926, then it is obvious that there is such a disconnection to reality and a debate about the real issue at hand, there is no sense in continuing the discussion.

      I do not have time to box with a shadow.

      On a much better note, I am looking at a couple of antique trucks in Tennessee, and if I end up buying one, I will let you know, and hopefully, we can drink a cup of Joe or something better.


  33. Pamela Jarvis July 30, 2012 at 10:12 am #

    You didn’t answer my question Ralph. What exactly do you advocate? Genocide? What’s to be done with those “clever scumbag Muslims”? Perhaps if you could conceive of another train of thought….(and I am not religiously inclined)..but Pope John II said “war is the most barbarous and least effective way of resolving conflicts”. Putting a face on people who suffer in misery and poverty could help bring understanding and resolution to some dire problems the world faces. Dehumanizing a people by calling them “buzzards” and the like, is trying to make them seem like animals…more easily to annihilate. You are rolling down the wrong road straight to oblivion..and you don’t even know it. Do you realize how many billions are spent supporting troops all over the world to make us safe??? We are not safe…..we have angered people who haven’t the advanced weaponry we have and they are now infiltrating our country, easily, to take revenge by committing acts of random violence. Wouldn’t it have been better to spend some of the military billions on winning hearts & minds? President Obama understands this…..and has been trying to keep peace…..other factions seem hell-bent on proliferating the stupidity of war and a possible nuclear incident. What is your plan Ralph? You need to tell your readers what you really think.

  34. Pamela Jarvis July 30, 2012 at 10:24 am #

    You want to send pictures?? I’ve seen pictures of atrocities you don’t mention….Mai Lai women and children……remember them? How about the thousands you don’t have pictures of…..how about those we killed when we bombed Iraq? Are we not without blood on our hands as well? These are not random incidents….these are the ones called casualties of war. Putting that name on it makes it seem like something it is not.

  35. Amy Rosebush July 30, 2012 at 12:35 pm #

    So, Ralph we lasted for one real response before you started telling me who I am. This will be my last direct response to you. The fact that I took an hour out of my day yesterday to poke around looking at things that were mentioned in that article is irrelevant to you. I have a “lack of serious concern for anything” important.
    Perhaps you should not speak for Marshall. I am actually interested in what he has to say.
    That is why I will not be engaging with you. Even when I took the time to do so you did not appreciate it, so you have been removed from my very long list of priorities. I will be responding elsewhere. We may find ourselves in conversation accidentally. If you have contributed good information I may find myself making reference to it, but I will not be concerning myself with your thought process.
    If you cared as much about the things that you claim to care about you would realize that interested young people like me would have stuck around longer to talk to you had you been less abrasive.
    You dropped some names there at the end but you insulted me before I got there, so why should I bother with it? I can find the same information from another source. I would rather deal with someone who is still open. Sometimes you become the beast you fear. Perhaps you might take a step away from the edge and deliberate on compassion and patience. Good day to you.

  36. Amy Rosebush July 30, 2012 at 1:06 pm #


    Well thank you for clarifying that you were not “jumping on me”. It is nice to converse with someone reasonably. The idea that being atheist requires faith is a common one. The atheist community has railed against the idea by coming up with internet memes like this one: “comparing atheism to religion is like saying that abstinence is a sexual position”. I just think that’s funny. More to the point though, being an atheist is more like only trusting what you can see and hear and prove. There is no faith involved.
    I see your point. You are saying that I am having “faith” that there is no god. I really don’t have to do that. I just have to say “I don’t think it is likely “and not worry about it. What if there was a god? Well, I would hope it would not be the god of the Bible. That is the most bloody and horrible book that I have ever read.

    I don’t mean to insult your religion if you follow the Bible.

    You asked me, so I have to be honest in my answer. If I found out that there was really a god of the Bible sitting in judgment of me, I would be very disappointed that said god had not seen fit to help the 17000 children who die of starvation every day. If the god of the Bible, the one that called for multiple genocides, war, the death of children, the banishment of handicaps, the killing of gays and the heinous selling of slaves, existed; I would not worship it.

    I do not concern myself with those ideas any more unless I am talking to a Christian about why I am not a Christian.

    What I concern myself with is science. Perhaps you might want to segway off into an apologetics discussion about why all these things I have said about the Bible god are not true, but that is my take. I actually read all but three chapters of the book and studied for a long time before I made my decision. Perhaps apologetics are sufficient for you, but I have chosen not to follow that road.

    So, speaking for complexity in the universe is a whole different subject. You asked about the complexity of a falcon eye, which is a good example. There are a million and one great examples of complexity. Everything is amazingly complex.
    This can all be explained by evolution or billions and billions of years. Over that period of time, everything becomes more complex.

    Forget the eye, look at an atom. That alone is amazing enough to fill pages. All that empty space around the nucleus, we should be able to put our hand right through things but we can’t. If you filled the whole earth with grapes, one grape is the size of a nucleus in comparison with the earth. That’s REALLY small! That’s what everything is made of. Atoms are not still either, they vibrate constantly. Everything is in constant motion even when it is standing still. This is amazing stuff and its hard to understand. It is easy to attribute it to magic or to miracle.

    I have read a few books on the subject of evolution. I have to admit, I never would have done that as a Christian. I will understand if you have not read a book on it. I am only talking about a real science book, not one that is trying to incorporate Christian ideas. I loved the Selfish Gene but it was a difficult read. An easier read is “Why Evolution is True” but most Christians don’t even want to pick that one up. (the only reason I presume to speak for most Christians is because I was one and from experience in having had MANY conversations like this)

    You said that a god and evolution could coincide. That is true. That is entirely possible. It is possible even that the interconnectedness of all things is an energy that is somehow aware of itself and I do not know it. (as an aside I often think that sentient creatures like us ARE the universe being aware of itself. It’s fun to think about these things. I mean, we are made of the stuff of stars that exploded. We are star stuff. If there are others in the universe who are also aware then they are a part of that observation.)

    It is possible that the god of the Bible was the creator but I sure hope not. ( Do you know the story of Mithras and the many other gods that came before Jesus that had similar stories to Jesus? I was surprised by that when I was studying my way out of the religion.

    As for compassion, I have loads of it. It is a natural part of who I am . I so much empathy I can’t even get through a taekwondo belt ceremony without crying my eyes out while the black belts read their speeches about how hard they have trained. I am a helpful and kind person. I do not need religion to give me morality.

    I have to go make breakfast for the kids so I don’t have time to get into social evolution, but a lot of our social constructs have evolved as well. There are instances of bonobo monkeys learning that being nice to each other pays off in the end. I will be happy to share that kind of information next time if you are interested. There are no seeds to be planted here. I am saved from religion and I like it that way.

    • Chris July 30, 2012 at 3:15 pm #

      I still say (and with nothing but the best intentions and humor) that the seeds have been planted. I am confident that God will work it out in His time.
      I cannot imagine how anyone could say that any one religious tome is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. To reject the idea of God because we do not agree that one book could have it all, is being a bit short sighted to me. As for the God of the Bible not being one to want to appreciate, well, I look at the New Testament and cannot dwell on the Old. I have wrestled with the God of the Old Testament being the pretty mean God that is often portrayed. Maybe it was to control the masses of the time. Maybe that is why Jesus showed up…to let the people know that they might be on the wrong path. The Bible I understand is quite clear about what Jesus spent His time discussing… and that is about love. It is NOT our place to hate anyone…rather love the sinner and not the sin. I find that a pretty easy philosphy to follow. The so called church in Kansas that goes around with the signs protesting at funerals of servicemen and women which say “God hates fags” have perverted His words and His sentiments. Jesus clearly said to invite everyone in to hear the message. What is the message for, if not for the “sinner”? While you may hear something else from some disconnected people on this blog, I do not hate Muslims. I fear what they might try to do to any and all of us vis a vis enslavement or worse, as that is their philosophy. I have never seen anything like that in the New Testament. The Q’uran clearly gets more violent as it progresses. The Bible clearly does not.
      I do know you have compassion…I can see it in what you write. That is what I was writing about before. Compassion is a very Godly thing, and not a science thing. It is what separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom. While there has been a lot of time since life germinated here on earth, it has not been billions of years. Don’t get me wrong…I am not saying what the Old testament says about our history of life, either.
      As for how I became a Christian, it is beyond any odds of being a coincidence that one could calculate. I will not go into it on this blog…it was a real event, in real time, and if able one day, I will email it to you. I submit that miracles do in fact happen. I also submit that evil in fact exists. That said, if evil exists, I believe that there is a real and factual counter point to evil.
      Lastly, and in reference to your earller point…your idea that a just God would not just sit back and let children die of starvation is a flawed point. The New Testament clearly states we have free will. That free will gives us the ability to do some pretty stupid things. is it God who is allowing children to die, or is it man who acted irresponsibly? You cannot have it both ways…to blame God for things that He clearly does not recommend.

      In any case…I too have work to do, and must ready myself for the next two days on the road.
      The best…

  37. reality July 30, 2012 at 3:04 pm #

    Chris warns about our “FUTURE under Islamic Nazi Socialism”? As he just substitutes “muslims” for “Jews”, as the “enemies” responsible for all our problems? Every Muslim in the world saw the Twin Towers come down, with almost 3000 people killed in horrible ways. Yet you think all those Billions of them rejoiced, because some danced in the streets and celebrated? That is like saying all Southerners approved of Slavery. Chris still hasn’t seen the many photos from space, showing our “tiny spaceship earth” as a dot in a huge universe? He’s looked into a falcon’s eyes, but has not questioned how many died as we bombed Iraq, twice? Did Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia have falcons?
    If so, were any hit with napalm, or affected by dioxin? Religion is a nice crutch, as Jesse Ventura says. It is a comfort to think that we simply pass on to some better place, rather than just rot like those falcons who hit windows, cars, etc. Islam is just another form of that crutch. And if there are 250 versions of Christianity, how many are there of Islam? And do you really believe all their female offspring will NOT eventually rise up against those horrible acts? Where is your faith in the essential goodness of human beings, as Anne Frank wrote? Where is your faith in the Creator you believe in? If He has Compassion, is He inciting one group of His Creations to kill the other groups of His Creations? And when you get to heaven to meet Him, what will He say to you, Ralph, and Marshall, about what you have written here?

    • Chris July 30, 2012 at 3:39 pm #

      Dear Disconnected-
      Once again, you go off into the ionisphere of the past discussing slavery, Camboida and falcons. Once again, you fail to recognize the intent of the Q’uran and the Haddith, and the issue of Islamic rule.

      Your jump to blaming the Creator for pitting one group against another is ludicrous. Actually, it is insane. The God I have chosen to follow clearly says we need to love one another, not kill them or behead them if they disagree with their philosophy. If you read the Q’uran and the Haddith, which is the blueprint of Islam for ALL Muslims, and you choose to defend their philosophy, then we indeed have nothing to discuss.

  38. Amy Rosebush July 30, 2012 at 4:51 pm #

    Again, thank you for your reasonable tone. If you want to call my compassion the god within, I can deal with that. The idea of a god watching my deeds and taking notes and working in my life is what I take issue with. The reason I mentioned 17000 children dying of starvation every day is because when good things happen people attribute it to a god. When bad things happen they say “Oh, we cannot know His plan, or they say we have to have faith that there is a reason”. That sort of thing upsets me. My least favorite things to hear is this :”God never gives you more than you can handle.” That is clearly not true.

    I used the Bible as an example because I am in America and I assumed that you were probably a Christian. I have Christian friends who only follow Jesus teaching and disregard the rest of the Bible. I think that is the same as deciding what you want to be true and choosing in kind. Don’t get me wrong. I understand why they do it. Who would want to follow the Old testament?
    I am glad you don’t want to kill gays or stone your children. There are a lot of examplea of compassion in the animal kingdom. I can give you examples next time I pop in if you wish. Maybe you tire of our digression.
    You dismissed the fact that the Earth is billions of years old. Do you also dismiss the theory of gravity? Evolution is a fact, not an opinion. It is called a theory, but theory doesn’t mean what most people think it means. ( I have spent plenty of time looking at Christian science too. I know the arguments. I am not all knowing, I am just saying that this isn’t my first experience with this conversation)
    Anyway, I appreciate your attitude during our discussion. We are way off course here. I am going to turn my focus back to understanding what is happening in politics while I am here. Also, my real research time is spent studying graphic design in school and learning about science.
    I don’t want to hear your salvation story. It isn’t because I don’t care about it. It is because I am gathering that you want to prove something to me by sharing it. You have nothing to prove to me. I have no reason to doubt that you believe what you believe.

    All I ask is for the same courtesy. You may notice that I will not say “well maybe one day you will realize that your god isn’t real”. That would be rude. I know you weren’t being rude because I WAS a Christian, If I wanted to be kind it was my job to tell people about a god. But just so you know, I have made an educated and informed opinion on the subject. I have moved beyond that question to newer and more rewarding ones.

    Again, I don’t mean to insult you. We are just on opposite sides of the same fence. I think what we share is a willingness to be kind to one another. THAT, apparently, is priceless.

    • Chris July 30, 2012 at 6:16 pm #

      No arguments on many of the issues you mention, except for your stating that the earth is factually billions of years old. That as yet, has not been proven to me. Life is no where near that old. Evolution is not a fact in the sense that it has given us a blueprint of the development of life. To compare gravity to evolution is to compare grapefruit to a blue sky. Sorry, but can’t buy on to something automatically.

      But back to the topic at hand, and that is the spread of Islam and the potential harm to America and the world.
      You do mention an interesting point…killing of gays and stoning of children. From what I have read in the Q’uran, killing gays and beheading infidels is kind of a sport. Molesting children is another thing that I find reprehensible…and that was a Mohammed thing. By extension, it is part of Obama’s foreign policy in dealing with the Muslim brotherhood. I am of the opinion that women having to cover themselves from head to toe, not being allowed to drive, vote, or be much more than property, is barbaric and disgusting. As for a specific book about the Muslim Brotherhood, I would suggest once again googling Usama Dakdok. He will be able to point you to some rather telling books. Take them for what they are worth.

      I specifically did not mention what happened to me and how I came to my faith because it is not for a public forum, and honestly, I have nothing to prove to you or anyone. You certainly have all the right in the world to NOT want to hear about it. Last week, a medical Dr. appeared on NBC, and described a rather harrowing experience where she drowned during a whitewater rafting trip. She was under water for 15 minutes. Yet she is here, has no brain damage, and when she returned from her experience, she was warned that she needed to return because her son was going to die. Weird. She also discussed what she said was being held by someone she KNEW was Jesus, who let her know she needed to return to life here. Things happen that seem to defy expanation. Too many experiences of people like Elizabeth Kubler Ross made me reject the “coinidence” theory of life. No one likes the idea of being judged by a “Big Guy” from above. If it all turned out to be nothing when I cash in my chips, I would rather try to live like a Christian, than live like I wasn’t.

  39. Amy Rosebush July 30, 2012 at 7:17 pm #

    Okay. As for evolution, I don’t expect anyone to just accept it automatically. It is a science therefore you have to study it. It’s a difficult science as well and the evidence for evolution is abundant and available to anyone ready to receive it.

    I am glad you are disgusted with the treatment of women in those parts of the world. I am with you there.

    When you say that you decide to live like a Christian I can say. “Okay. I am sure that means something to you”. I live as a moral and upstanding person with ethics and compassion, empathy and kindness.

    So we have that in common as well.

    I will google this Usama Dakdok. Thank you.

  40. Amy Rosebush July 30, 2012 at 7:21 pm #

    Oh, I forgot. When I was comparing gravity to evolution, I was addressing the issue raised with the word theory. This is a long Wikipedia definition….sorry…..lousy source. but adequate explanation:

    In modern science, the term “theory” refers to scientific theories, a well-confirmed type of explanation of nature, made in a way consistent with scientific method, and fulfilling the criteria required by modern science. Such theories are described in such a way that any scientist in the field is in a position to understand and either provide empirical support (“verify”) or empirically contradict (“falsify”) it. Scientific theories are the most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge,[2] in contrast to more common uses of the word “theory” that imply that something is unproven or speculative.[3] Scientific theories are also distinguished from hypotheses, which are individual empirically testable conjectures, and scientific laws, which are descriptive accounts of how nature will behave under certain conditions.[4]

    Again, we digress. But what I mean to say was that people disregard evolution because of their religious belief and they say “oh it is only a theory”.

    Gravity is a theory as well.

    That was my point.

    It was about the scientific use of the word theory as opposed to the laymens use of the word.
    Have a nice trip.

  41. Ralph E. July 30, 2012 at 7:29 pm #

    Snake Hunter Sez,

    It appears that all of us Are GUILTY of wandering far-a-field from Marshall Frank’s “Obama’s Foreign Policy In A Nutshell” article… But Sincere Amy asked for us to suggest a good book on ISLAM. May I suggest that rather than speed-read some author’s view, Sincere Amy might try going… Directly to the Source Material???

    Example: Allah’s Apostle said: “I have been made victorious with terror” — > Bukhari, Vol 4,
    Book 52, #220

    “War Is Deceit.” Bukhari, Vol 4, Book 52, #269

    “The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and his Messenger (Mohammed) and strive for mischief in the land is: execution, or crucifixtion, or cutting off hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land… that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter.” – – > Qur’an 5:33

    Fight and slay the Pagans whereever ye find them, and lie in wait for them in every strategm of war.” – Qur’an 9:5

    “I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve: Therefore, strike off their heads, and strike off every fingertip of them.” – Qur’an 8:12

    (Do You like to “disbelieve” – Are you a Skeptic? Caution: Allah might not like that, Pam!)


    Amy, Pam Jarvis, and her Anonymous Friend would do well to print above satanic verses, for these are among the most “authoritive” writings that we have found, and you can verify them with a few keyboard strokes on your home computer!

    If You Insist On Accuracy, and Concise, Fact-Based Evidence? Then Do Some Research!

    — > http://www.thereligionofpeace.com — > http://www.thereligionofpeace/violence.com


    ___ ___

  42. Ralph E. July 30, 2012 at 7:54 pm #

    Correction – Correction !

    The First link to the religion-of-peace is Valid — the 2nd link doesn’t work. Sorry!!!

    ___ ___

  43. Pamela Jarvis July 31, 2012 at 12:52 am #

    Amy – You have my humble respect and admiration. There are many people like yourself who find themselves in discussions with individuals that don’t have the knowledge or the background to understand the smallest notions of evolution of thought, science, critical thinking, Earth, our Galaxy, or our Universe. But what better way is there to learn the nature of it all…what is truth….what is moral…what is compassion, and what is this mysterious life itself. One thing is for sure…we’re all in it together….we need to make the best of it. Hope for the future remains because of intelligent-thinking individuals like yourself; I see the younger, smarter generation getting it – by that, I mean the knowledge and desire to examine and solve some of the mounting difficult problems the whole world is rapidly experiencing and becoming aware of. Ralph and Chris and others think fanatical Islamists are our worse threat. They are probably dead wrong on that one. I wish you the best on this blog should you continue to stick around……in my opinion, you have a lot to offer. You have a good heart.

    • Chris July 31, 2012 at 11:40 am #

      Oh arbitor of all –

      Why don’t you tell us what is moral?

      You seem to be secure that you are taking the high ground.

      The younger and smarter generation is only half what you write.

  44. reality July 31, 2012 at 1:07 am #

    Chris, if the God you have chosen says to love one another, don’t you obey? If He is the Creator of all the Universe, surely He created those Muslim peoples that you are so afraid of. And is He testing your Faith, by requiring you to love them too? As He tested Abraham’s faith by requiring him to kill his son? And are you not required to obey the Commandments of your God, even if those who don’t believe in Him, don’t?

    • Chris July 31, 2012 at 11:37 am #

      Dear Disconnected-
      The one God…the only God says to love not to hate. That IS what I deign to do. HE INDEED created all those people who became Muslims. And Jews. And Athiests. Etc. Being afraid of the fanatical rants and raves and practices of a cult does not preclude our loving them. He is not testing my faith We, incidentally, are not in the Old Testament times, we are in the New Testament times. The testing of faith is no longer done. (See the Bible).

      If you have ever read anything I posted, you will see that my common thread vis a vis religion and the beliefs of a true Christian tell us to love, but in no way to they tell us to believe the horse pucky the Islamists hand out. I will continue to love people as commanded (it is not a test, nor is it a strain), but I may have to love them to the point of meeting their virgins if they are going to try to do my family or me harm. And THAT is THEIR OBJECTIVE.

      Read their manifesto. Put down Triple Cross, and read what this group wants to do to everyone else. Unless you already believe in their crap, and if that is the case, I guess you are prepared to kill me.

  45. Amy Rosebush July 31, 2012 at 2:21 am #

    Thank you Pamela, that was so nice!

  46. Ralph E. July 31, 2012 at 5:07 am #

    Tired old Snake-hunter sez,

    A left-leaning socialist meets two transparent progressive/democrats, and they find an instant rapport, so they exchange soft encouraging praises and pleasantries, and gush those “so nice” sentimments!

    Amy has said that she wants to read an authoritative, scholarly book on Islam. So… I quote satanic verses directly from the death cult’s holy book, with chapter & verse references, and what is Curious Amy’s response to my note of July 30, at 7:29 pm? Zero, Zilch, Nothing.

    Pamela says, “Ralph & Chris think that fanatical Islamists are the worst threats.”

    Well, perhaps Ralph & Chris have studied the 1400 yrs of bloody wars perpetrated by the Moon God of the Kaaba, and his Messenger, and the evil contents in this ‘MAUAL OF WAR instructions to these fanatical islamists leaves little doubt as to their intentions.

    In the vain hope of helping to dilute the propaganda that the “left-leaners” have been marinating in, and maybe long enough to permit some factual history and awareness of the perils we must one day soon confront. If not, may G-O-D Help Their Kids, and Grand Kids!

    Meanwhile, back in La-la Land, their leader, with soft-soap “at the ready” Pamela Jarvis and Disconnected Reality welcome speed-reader Amy Rose-Branch into their Out-in-space orbit of “Wishful Vista Thinker’s Club”


    Marshall – Please let me know if and when this lollipop three-some have had enough… talking gibberish to themselves… and Praying to Allah… in his Garden of Peace, where suicide bombers cavort in the sun with their 72 virgins…. as our Earth spins around Galilleo Galillie’s Sun, sailing through our Vast Universe… that Jehovah, Christ and perhaps even Zoroaster helped Create, and the Hari Hari Krishna followers discuss the deeper meaning of things they will never understand, as they munch on magic mushrooms, and bong their pipes, and pretend wisdom far beyond this capitalistic establishment, that a few hope to conserve with… Ron Reagan’s PEACE THROUGH STRENGTH. – reb

    ___ ___

  47. Pamela Jarvis July 31, 2012 at 8:39 am #

    “Tired old Snake-Hunter”??? Really?? Curiouser and curiouser as Alice said. The perils we should be confronting are already here Ralph. But they are not the ones you obsess about….they are far more dangerous.

    There are dedicated good people out there trying hard to help us…..your jingoistic ideology is obstructing their efforts. Good luck with your hate tactics….too bad you can’t see that they will never work.

  48. Amy Rosebush July 31, 2012 at 1:24 pm #

    I looked up the name you dropped Chris.

    I am thinking more along the lines of something like this. I need a proper introduction

    The New Muslim Brotherhood in the West (Columbia Studies in Terrorism and Irregular Warfare) [Hardcover]
    Lorenzo Vidino (Author)

    People are saying things like THIS is review:
    “The amount of original, primary research in this book is impressive. And, as the other reviewer noted, he does all this without being (a) an apologist or (b) a right-wing fanatic – the two categories of people who seem to do all the talking and writing about the Brotherhood in the West these days.”

    • Chris July 31, 2012 at 10:30 pm #

      OK. I am done with this topic anyway. Good hunting Amy.

    • Chris July 31, 2012 at 10:34 pm #

      Forgot to add…my conclusions about the m b and Islam in general are based on historical facts, such as Hitler’s recruitment of Muslims before WW2 to help him kill Jews. That, the Q’uran, and the Haddith sum it up. Others are welcome to act like an Ostrich, and pretend it isn’t happening.

      On to the next topic!!!

  49. reality July 31, 2012 at 4:27 pm #

    Dear Chris: I am sorry you are so afraid. We see so many children suffering from severe allegies, autism, etc. now, and even 50 years ago, breast milk was filled with so many toxins, that frankly, it worries me more what we ourselves are doing to the beautiful planet the Creator gave us. What does He think, as He sees our drinking water polluted, our waterways drying up, and/or tainted with pesticides, our ice caps melting? I’ve seen Rep. Keith Ellison speak often. Do you really think he is part of a Conspiracy to come and get you? It is like the old days, when the Catholic candidate Al Smith, was “controlled by Rome”, remember? And please do remember, “Peace thru strength” Reagan took money from the Islamic-madrassa-school-funders Saudi Royalty, to give to the anti-Commie Contras, because the Commies were going to invade Texas! The Military Industrial Complex is depending on you to keep their handouts coming. Look up the V-22 Osprey-how much so far, how many killed?

    • Chris July 31, 2012 at 10:27 pm #

      Enough Disconnected. You (like all the swine of the left) spin, twist and take only the words you want to – and generally out of context.

      We as a world disregarded Hitler. How many people did he kill before he was done?

      We are disregarding Islam. They are the same people.

      Do not respond to this expecting any more from me.
      I hope sincerely that they come to visit you…first.

  50. Ralph E. July 31, 2012 at 5:01 pm #

    Snake Hunter Sez,

    Pamela – It’s been only slightly entertaining trading jabs and insults with you, but yes, I am tired of this time-consuming chatter. I shall return to more profitable contacts with the folks, with skilled abilities that are superior to my own, that provide good source material and usable information… that’s not available on NPR, MSNBC, CNN and FOX News Channels.

    Too Damn Many Commercials; too many wasted hours!


    Marshall – I’ll soon have more info on Georgetown U’s connection to Prince Alweed bin Talal for your file, including new info on John Esposito; it’s best that I eMail it… these air-heads clearly prefer turning this comment section away from… sharing information… and into their own personal chat-room… where they can stroke each other’s vanity. Boring! – reb

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